Debating the virtue of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
This evening I had a 90-minute IM debate over the Flying Spaghetti Monster. My friend is neither a creationist nor particularly religious, but after finding the FSM link on this site said that it seemed patronising. I'm not going to continue my argument in a one-sided blog post - that would be remarkably unfair - but I'll try to articulate her point.
Bit of background: the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a deity created in response to the Kansas school board's hearings on whether to include 'Intelligent Design' in US science classes. 'Intelligent Design' says that the world has clear elements of design, and that standard evolutionary theory is demonstrably false. It's creationism in a hat. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is worshipped by many, and His followers believe that if 'Intelligent Design' has a place in science classrooms, so does the FSM. After all: He created the universe and everything in it, this much is clear. The standard scientific methods of evidence are insufficient because:
what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
Oh, and:
[I]t is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia.
The FSM analogy works well, I think, because it results in creationists arguing against themselves. Every argument against the clearly insane FSM theory of creation applies equally to 'Intelligent Design'.
So what's the problem?
- My friend said that the nature of the FSM is childish and patronising. I disagreed, saying that the point is that it makes no sense and is clearly ridiculous.
- She said that the impression from the FSM is that we think creationists are idiots. I replied that I, and all Pastafarians, do not think (or, at least, recognise that such thoughts are not part of any valid argument) that creationists are idiots, just that their theory of 'Intelligent Design' is moronic - it's fine to attack ideas, but not people.
- She said that they will react as if we've treated them like idiots, because of the initial impression the FSM gives. I conceded that this may sometimes be the case, even though it's not the point of the argument. I said that the 'teach all sides' argument is compelling to many people and the FSM is a fast, clear analogy that does not directly criticise their religion, and causes them to argue against themselves. People should not be offended when they see the point.
- She said that she can see how the FSM works as an effective tool, but that it is nevertheless patronising because we should talk to them like adults: there are better ways to articulate the point without parodying creation myths and drawing cartoons.
And that was where we left it. It's not a bad point, on the face of it. Even though the underlying message of the FSM is sound, it is vaguely conceivable that there could be somebody intelligent and logically-minded for whom it could be patronising, although I suspect this may be a straw-man creationist. I'm also not sure that they're the intended target. This is the point I'm struggling with (although it's 0130 and I'm not terribly awake
). While you could argue that when serious debate is needed it's easily provided, and that the FSM has generated large amounts of useful publicity, could it actually cause resentment in otherwise rational people? Are there circumstances in which it's reasonable to see the FSM as patronising?
FSM Prayer
Please take a moment, fellow Pastafarians.
Our spaghetti
Who art in the colander
Hallowed be thy sauce
Thy serving come
Thy strands be wrung
On forks as they are on spoons
Give us this day our daily meatball
And forgive us our starchiness
As we forgive those who are starchy against us
And lead us not into Kraft parmesan
But deliver us from Chef Boy Ardee
For thine is the garlic
And the onion and the bay leaves
For ever and ever.
Ramen
From Tattered Sleeve, via (as so often) J-Walk Blog.
Tweets
- @nodster and a sexually transmitted condition. in reply to nodster 10 hrs ago
- @nodster I'm sure we can sort something out :-) in reply to nodster 20 hrs ago
- @dianashots Did The Lord tell you that Paint Never Dries? in reply to dianashots 20 hrs ago
- @ah8r You could hang a lightweight basket from the bottom, and put sweets in it. in reply to ah8r 21 hrs ago
- @ah8r Nice! Want one. in reply to ah8r 21 hrs ago
- @grimsb Precisely. One day I will find a comic with a Krypto the Superdog/Beppo the Supermoney teamup. And then I will die happy. in reply to grimsb 23 hrs ago
- http://twitpic.com/18dvc7 - Oh yes. 23 hrs ago
- More updates...
Shared Niceties
- Theodore H. Frank: I am not afraid of my Toyota PriusIs it possible the Toyota acceleration problems don't really exist? Via @Andrew_Taylor, @mjrobbins.
- Flickr’s Season Wheel
- Oh not niceshudder
- Excel Tips: A Formula To Calculate A RatioYou have no idea how useful this will be for me.
- iPhone OS 4.0 may finally bring multitasking nirvanaThis would be great, mainly because I am weirdly obsessed with analysing my GPS mileage, but I'm prepared for it to be 3GS only. My 3G creaks occasionally anyway - multitasking might be asking a bit much.
- feature: Why new hard disks might not be much fun for XP usersGood technical primer on the recent BBC story.
- BBC News - Blue Peter dog Mabel retires from showAwww, I remember that dog's first day.
- Exhausting the entire problem space of animated teddy-bears, cars, people and pigeons
- Daily Mail lies about FacebookThe whole thing had nothing to do with Facebook.
- The Librarian: The Curse of the Judas Chalice TrailerOh my goodness.
- sikhs
- Holy cow this is the tiniest photographer we’ve ever...There is an action movie finale to be had here, where Good Guy presses the shutter and the camera fires an RPG into Bad Guy's smiling face. Suggested one-liner: "say cheese, dickhead."
- The United Steaks of America project is, well, just what it...
- Pharmacist refuses to issue pill because of her religion - TelegraphVery not ok.
- AutoFocus portfolio themeOne of very few portfolio-site designs I actually like. Dates keeps you honest and fresh; info is clean and tidy; layout is nice. Might actually start building myself a site. Via @photojojo, who are on fire at the moment.
- Violent video games: small causal link with aggressionActual data! Not just made up stuff in newspapers! Overall picture is muddy, though.
- Tipsy thinking
- Spider Holster Now Available WorldwideNo, no and furthermore, no.
- Twitter: The Criterion Collection
- Puppy in the womb
- Plugin by C. Murray Consulting
Hello!
Hey, thanks for coming! I'm Andrew, and this is where my headthinks come to breed. They often dance around humanism, photography and general wonderments, but there's dabblage aplenty.
Do feel free to email me - I get lonely:

Your hair looks swish, by the way - have you done something new?
Recent Comments
- Kris Ratcliffe: Thanks for this, I recently got an Email read out on 6 Music and had to cut it out. The BBC servers are super-fast!
on How to download iPlayer radio shows on Vista. - Simon: Wooo, well done!
on Happy Humanists Exhibition. - Andrew: My work here is done.
on Concrete jungle. - Lil: Damn you =P
on Concrete jungle. - PE: remember ladies and Gentleman-the true Magic is in your mind-Derren is a consumate card magician/performer/mentalist/b ullpooher...
on Derren Brown – Mind Reader: The Evening of Wonders.