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	<title>Comments on: Whining about speed cameras is pathetic</title>
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	<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/</link>
	<description>like balloons, only with dancing</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Outraged over average speed cameras &#124; wongaBlog</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-58450</link>
		<dc:creator>Outraged over average speed cameras &#124; wongaBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-58450</guid>
		<description>[...] previously blogged my opinions on anti-speed-camera campaigners (I find them pathetic) and won&#8217;t rehash them [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] previously blogged my opinions on anti-speed-camera campaigners (I find them pathetic) and won&#8217;t rehash them [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Used vans girl</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-5931</link>
		<dc:creator>Used vans girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-5931</guid>
		<description>Drivers who get caught speeding should be forced to watch footage taken of people getting knocked over and how it affects lives, because that's the reality of what happens when speeding occurs.  They are just thoughtless idiots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drivers who get caught speeding should be forced to watch footage taken of people getting knocked over and how it affects lives, because that&#8217;s the reality of what happens when speeding occurs.  They are just thoughtless idiots.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil A</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-5935</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-5935</guid>
		<description>The &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; problem with the result of the case of the ‘speed trap pair’ is nothing to do with speed limits, speed traps, or little girls in adverts. It would still be a problem if they had been shoplifting, or living off immoral earnings.

What &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; concern &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; is that the Judges at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg voted by 15-2 to reject their case on the grounds that:

&lt;i&gt;"The court did not accept the applicants' argument that the right to remain silent and the right not to incriminate oneself were absolute rights,"&lt;/i&gt;

Now if, as the court says, they are not absolute rights in this case – they may well not be rights in any offence - and that is an erosion of the rights of all of us.

So maybe the pair might do better to sue the government under the Trade Descriptions Act. The police and Criminal Evidence Act lays down the following modern interpretation of the ‘Judge’s Rules’ or ‘right to silence’ also known as the "caution":

&lt;i&gt;"You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something you later rely on in court, Anything you do say may be given in evidence."&lt;/i&gt;

Maybe this should now read more like:

&lt;i&gt;”You do not have the right to silence and failing to disclose anything we want to know could result in your receiving a harsher sentence - if we can actually manage to find a jail cell for you that is.”&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <i>real</i> problem with the result of the case of the ‘speed trap pair’ is nothing to do with speed limits, speed traps, or little girls in adverts. It would still be a problem if they had been shoplifting, or living off immoral earnings.</p>
<p>What <i>should</i> concern <i>everyone</i> is that the Judges at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg voted by 15-2 to reject their case on the grounds that:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The court did not accept the applicants&#8217; argument that the right to remain silent and the right not to incriminate oneself were absolute rights,&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Now if, as the court says, they are not absolute rights in this case – they may well not be rights in any offence - and that is an erosion of the rights of all of us.</p>
<p>So maybe the pair might do better to sue the government under the Trade Descriptions Act. The police and Criminal Evidence Act lays down the following modern interpretation of the ‘Judge’s Rules’ or ‘right to silence’ also known as the &#8220;caution&#8221;:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something you later rely on in court, Anything you do say may be given in evidence.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Maybe this should now read more like:</p>
<p><i>”You do not have the right to silence and failing to disclose anything we want to know could result in your receiving a harsher sentence - if we can actually manage to find a jail cell for you that is.”</i></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-5934</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-5934</guid>
		<description>I disagree - I don't think the individual motorist, whether 'stupid' or not, is capable of judging appropriate speeds. Firstly, there are always going to be variables we don't know about regarding road condition and the surroundings. Secondly, psychological factors make a big difference: 40 feels incredibly slow when you've just got off the motorway, and it would be easy to decide 50 was 'appropriate'. Especially at 3 in the morning. Also, how are you going to charge anyone if they cause an accident?

I think it's ok for the individual motorist to decide to go more slowly, but never more quickly. There may well be occasions on which it would be ok, but I just don't think the individual motorist is capable of objectively judging them, no matter how 'obvious' it seems, and the only way is to stick to the speeds decided by road safety experts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree - I don&#8217;t think the individual motorist, whether &#8217;stupid&#8217; or not, is capable of judging appropriate speeds. Firstly, there are always going to be variables we don&#8217;t know about regarding road condition and the surroundings. Secondly, psychological factors make a big difference: 40 feels incredibly slow when you&#8217;ve just got off the motorway, and it would be easy to decide 50 was &#8216;appropriate&#8217;. Especially at 3 in the morning. Also, how are you going to charge anyone if they cause an accident?</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s ok for the individual motorist to decide to go more slowly, but never more quickly. There may well be occasions on which it would be ok, but I just don&#8217;t think the individual motorist is capable of objectively judging them, no matter how &#8216;obvious&#8217; it seems, and the only way is to stick to the speeds decided by road safety experts.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-5930</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-5930</guid>
		<description>The problem is that most people are stupid.

Sensible drivers observe the road conditions around them and drive at a speed appropriate for the conditions. At 3:30pm through a village with a school, 20 mph is too fast, even though the limit says 30. At 3:30 am through the same village, you could safely drive at 40 mph, but, no you can't, because there's a speed camera and the limit says 30. Computer says 'no'.

Same on a motorway. M6, early on a weekday morning, lots of traffic about, 60 mph might be too fast. M5, middle of a sunday afternoon, the only traffic is (or should be) in lane 1 and is separated by about half a mile from each other, why on earth shouldn't you drive at 80 ?

But no, people are stupid. If the sign says 60/40/30 they will drive at 60/40/30, without regard for what's going on around them.

Teach people to drive properly, then replace speed limits with speed guidelines. But that won't work unless you ban stupid people from driving...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that most people are stupid.</p>
<p>Sensible drivers observe the road conditions around them and drive at a speed appropriate for the conditions. At 3:30pm through a village with a school, 20 mph is too fast, even though the limit says 30. At 3:30 am through the same village, you could safely drive at 40 mph, but, no you can&#8217;t, because there&#8217;s a speed camera and the limit says 30. Computer says &#8216;no&#8217;.</p>
<p>Same on a motorway. M6, early on a weekday morning, lots of traffic about, 60 mph might be too fast. M5, middle of a sunday afternoon, the only traffic is (or should be) in lane 1 and is separated by about half a mile from each other, why on earth shouldn&#8217;t you drive at 80 ?</p>
<p>But no, people are stupid. If the sign says 60/40/30 they will drive at 60/40/30, without regard for what&#8217;s going on around them.</p>
<p>Teach people to drive properly, then replace speed limits with speed guidelines. But that won&#8217;t work unless you ban stupid people from driving&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brownie</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-5933</link>
		<dc:creator>Brownie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-5933</guid>
		<description>Of course you're right. Behaving irresponsibly in your car is still far more socially acceptable than it ought to be. As I keep telling the parents who park on the yellow lines outside my daughters' school.

The day I kick off one of their wing mirrors is not too far away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course you&#8217;re right. Behaving irresponsibly in your car is still far more socially acceptable than it ought to be. As I keep telling the parents who park on the yellow lines outside my daughters&#8217; school.</p>
<p>The day I kick off one of their wing mirrors is not too far away.</p>
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		<title>By: Rullsenberg</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-5929</link>
		<dc:creator>Rullsenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 14:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-5929</guid>
		<description>Yes!  YES!  You are so on the nail about this it almost hurts to read it.

Mind, having said that there's one of those 'Mind Your Speed' signs that supposedly flashes up the speed you're driving at.  I've gone past this in the middle of a crawling queue of traffic going about 12 miles an hour tops and seen it flash "48 - SLOW DOWN".  I'm wondering if it picks up the speed of passing birds???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes!  YES!  You are so on the nail about this it almost hurts to read it.</p>
<p>Mind, having said that there&#8217;s one of those &#8216;Mind Your Speed&#8217; signs that supposedly flashes up the speed you&#8217;re driving at.  I&#8217;ve gone past this in the middle of a crawling queue of traffic going about 12 miles an hour tops and seen it flash &#8220;48 - SLOW DOWN&#8221;.  I&#8217;m wondering if it picks up the speed of passing birds???</p>
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		<title>By: PooterGeek &#187; Blog Archive &#187; World Of Wonga</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-5928</link>
		<dc:creator>PooterGeek &#187; Blog Archive &#187; World Of Wonga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-5928</guid>
		<description>[...] might be wrong, but believing often makes for happier and more successful people; and I enjoyed this marvellous rant about anti speed camera campaigners. My apologies in advance, Andrew, for any bloggertarians you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] might be wrong, but believing often makes for happier and more successful people; and I enjoyed this marvellous rant about anti speed camera campaigners. My apologies in advance, Andrew, for any bloggertarians you [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Skuds</title>
		<link>http://wongablog.co.uk/2007/06/29/whining-about-speed-cameras-is-pathetic/#comment-5932</link>
		<dc:creator>Skuds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wongablog.djcounsell.org/?p=2534#comment-5932</guid>
		<description>Well said.  I saw that kill-your-speed advert on TV tonight, the one where the girl says that being hit at 40 there is an 80% chance she would die but at 30 there is an 80% she would survive.  I had seen it before but only tonight did I notice the final slogan - "its 30 for a reason"

I think it would be quite persuasive if the people it is aimed at were at all likely to pay attention.

Its good to see someone thwarted who is not making much pretence at innocence but just trying to use a loophole. This is the sort of abuse which is used to undermine the human rights act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said.  I saw that kill-your-speed advert on TV tonight, the one where the girl says that being hit at 40 there is an 80% chance she would die but at 30 there is an 80% she would survive.  I had seen it before but only tonight did I notice the final slogan - &#8220;its 30 for a reason&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it would be quite persuasive if the people it is aimed at were at all likely to pay attention.</p>
<p>Its good to see someone thwarted who is not making much pretence at innocence but just trying to use a loophole. This is the sort of abuse which is used to undermine the human rights act.</p>
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