Halfway through the second act, Derren Brown called out my name and told me the first song I ever played on a guitar. It was quite the thing.
Derren Brown is a ‘psychological illusionist’ memorably described by Charlie Brooker as ‘clearly the greatest dinner party guest in history’. His TV shows regularly feature a mixture of street magic/psychology and elaborate, often controversial, events. He’s certainly the most interesting TV magician of recent years, and last night I saw him at the Birmingham Hippodrome.
Like his TV shows, the act was described as a mixture of ‘magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship’1, and lived up to the billing. We were told that during the show a gorilla would come onto the stage, steal a banana from a stand at the front, and most of us wouldn’t notice. So it proved. We saw an audience member forget information given to her moments before, a floating table drag four volunteers around the stage, six rapid-fire games of 20 questions in which he never asked more than 4, and a series of baffling three-digit-number predictions. Somebody’s phone rang and he said “don’t answer, it’s really bad news”.
Derren Brown is unquestionably on the side of Good. He says up front “I do not have psychic powers, and I may well trick you”, then proceeds to do so. People who claim to have psychic powers and use the same tricks to make money are unquestionably Evil2, the opposite are great entertainment. Some have questioned whether he goes too far: there’s plenty of genuine psychology, but also a fair amount of magical trickery wrapped up in the same patter. I was lucky enough to get an insight into this. At the end of the first act we were told to watch out for ushers with 150 cards. Recipients were asked to write a question for Derren on the card, seal it inside the supplied black envelope and note their initials and row on the front. They were then to check the envelope was truly opaque before walking onto the stage and placing it into a glass bowl, which remained in full view of the audience throughout the interval.
Obviously, I wanted to do this. So I did. I moved fairly quickly and was able to grab a card before they ran out. The card asked for my name, birthday and a question for Derren. He’d said it could be literally anything, so I wrote “How did the bee ‘waggle dance’ evolve?”. The back of the card then asked for a private piece of information to further test his abilities, so I filled this in too then quickly headed to the stage, dropped my envelope into the bowl and made it back to my seat just before the lights dimmed.
After a couple of tricks he explained the procedure. By looking at the handwriting on the front of the envelope he hoped to ascertain the personality type of its owner. We were to stand up, and he’d then read our body language and try to figure out what we’d written. And then proceeded to do so. He picked out apparently random cards, sometimes using them, sometimes discarding them, and called out the initials so the owner stood. He told people the pets they had, the password for their computer, their occupation and what they’d been doing that day. About half-way through he took off his microphone earpiece, in case anybody thought he was being fed answers, and wrapped bandages around his head to completely blind himself. And then continued with the act. The following exchange (transcribed as accurately as I can remember) happened shortly after:
DB: [picks up a card] A guitar! Andy..Andrew…does that match anybody?
Me: [standing up and receiving the microphone from a scurrying usher] Yes, that’s me.
DB: A Taurean, right?
Me: Yes. [gasps from audience]
DB: This is something musical, something to do with the guitar. I’m getting…It’s the first song you played on the guitar, am I right?
Me: Yes.
DB: Ok. About fifteen years old, right?
Me: No.
DB: It is older?
Me: Oh, me or the song?
DB: Never mind, one question at a time. Sing the song over in your head. Over and over. Try to project it to me.
Me: [actually doing so]. Ok.
DB: I’m getting something about…pain, is that close?
Me: Yes, very.
DB: And lots of pain. I can’t quite figure it out. There are many people in pain? Something like that?
Me: That’s very close.
DB: I can’t get the title I’m afraid, what is it?
Me: Everybody Hurts. [audience go into shock]
I was very, very impressed. The rest of the show was most entertaining, but I couldn’t quite get over him managing to detect that kind of information from what must have purely been the tone of my voice - it’s astonishing that people can give away that much information!
Later, I changed my mind. There’s no doubt that the guy has an uncanny ability to read people, and I was prepared to accept that handwriting could give away very obvious facts like gender, leaving him to discern the rest from body language, but blinded he couldn’t possibly have known my guitar fact and name. So it must have been trickery, rather than psychology. I’m confident I’ve worked out how it was done, starting from the age-old magical principle that there is no limit to the trouble a magician will go to. I’m not going to go into it here - I see no reason to, and am still bound by the old magician’s code anyway - but the clues are there if you want the intellectual exercise.
It is momentarily crushing to realise you’ve been fooled. I bought into the psychological aspect, and when I realised this was a falsehood I felt tricked. But not for long. Once you figure out the secret you can see the myriad of ways he worked to throw people off the scent, and it was remarkably well done. The subtlety and panache of just that one trick was stunning, and his performance impeccable: I believed every second of him not being able to figure out the song title. There was plenty in the show that was clearly trickery, but I have no idea as to the mechanics. Other effects gave every impression of being purely psychological. I had the advantage of extra knowledge in the routine I was involved with, and if each of the others was as carefully constructed, which they must have been, it was a hell of a creation. My admiration far outweighs the initial resentment.
Derren Brown’s obfuscation of psychology and trickery is edgier than most magicians’, but I don’t have a problem with it. You don’t have to be a great logician to realise it’s impossible to get a psychological reading of somebody’s handwriting if you’re blindfolded, and throughout the show he was at pains to say he doesn’t believe in psychic ability and is highly skeptical with regard to the paranormal. I can’t think of any statements that were outright lies and not magician’s misdirection. There’s plenty in psychology that is astonishing - much of it is well highlighted in his more spectacular TV work - and anything that draws attention to it is fine with me.
A good magic show is a wonderful thing, and there aren’t many classier than this. Highly recommended.
Hi,
I was there in Birmingham and unfortunately, I don’t have the background to figure out how he did it but I’m still intrigued. Can you tell us a little about how he did it?
Derek
I have just come back from watching Derren brown at manchester 5/5/07 and was totally amazed. I went to see his show last year and loved it then but his show this year was totally unlike the last one and was at a different level. In the second half he asked people to write a question for him to answer along with something personal about yourself to start off with he answered the questions and told them the personal thing about him self. I actually took part in the show he gussed my computer password. a 14 chracter one. ( In which i have changed now) I was and am still in shcok on how he did it. If you can get tickets go and watch it it is the best 22 pound i have ever spent.
Laura,
I was there in the circle above you last night. So you weren’t the plant then
Paul
Was also there last night. No question that its a range of techniques both illusion and psycoligical. Dont underestimate how amazing this guys memory is. He has shown it over and over again on his TV shows.
Matt
i was certainly not a plant i was totally amazed. That password no one knew and it was really long 14 digits.
Before i went to that show i was still thinking it wasn’t all real but now i am a total believer. He is amazing. i want to see the show again to see if i can work out how some things are done.
All respect to Derren and his abilities but you have to remember that there’s no magic/psychic abilities involved - it is all very clever trickers. As somone else said, don’t underestimate the trouble they will go to. You can find out how this trick is done, with some very clever other abilities, on the internet if you search, but there’s no reason to “believe”.
A great show in any case.
i know he has no psychic power but when i said believed i meant i believe that he is a really clever man and that it is not obvious how he does it i.e he doesn’t use plants because i know i was not a plant
I’m still a little unclear on the question one.
Having been and took a look at the forms there were two main fields: Question for derren & Fact about yourself. In the fact about yourself you can write down a fact rather than a question right? so you might write down my “middle name is robert” if you were really boring… So if he was able to use trickery and deception - common threads of magic - to be able to somehow read your card - perhaps by discarding it onto the stage far enough for someone behind the scenes to open it and then feed him prompts - then he could easily ‘guess’ the information, whilst making you think it was impossible by keeping the focus on the question aspect - the answer to which was not provided - hence it seeming impossible.
This is just my theory btw - constructed on the night - i’m reading his book now and seems to have seperate sections for magic and psychological trickery etc. He seems to have a good mastery of the fundemental skills, and together with his intelligence he can do some fantastic things.. i’m personally fascinated with the psychological items of the show, and would really love to see that aspect seperated from the magical trickery aspects.
Amazing!!!! Not.
You wrote some stuff down on a card. You put the card he provided in an envelop he provided. He handled the envelope and then told you some of the info on that card.
I can’t even BEGIN to imagine how this was possible
I admit this could be true but it is still amazing that he could remember all the information for about 15 people in less then 10 mins. Could you honestly say you could do that? There was alot of information on the cards and it could of easily be muddled up however it wasn’t thats why it is amazing.
So Nozza, how do you see through the envelope that he provided?
Laura, I was also there on saturday, it was a great show.
Just wondering if you wrote the pin number in the envelope??
Im guessing you did.
I cant see how he could guess it if you didnt.
The most amazing part was that Jasper Carrot thing ………….
oh and when he appeared in the monkey suit………….
And the phone call …………..
and, well actually, it was all amazing!
I did write my password down therefore he could of seen it however it was amazing how he if he saw it remembered all the information on the card and the same for the other people in a short period of time. Admittingly the end bit was the most amazing and am in shock to how he knew jasper carrot would come up in the show. This would kind of try and make me believe that he didn’t the see the cards but this we will never know. However there is no harm in believing the impossible is there?
Remembering that he is an expert at slight of hand and at remembering things, you have to remember that he could have read the cards before and remembered the info and also switched the roll of paper from the box hanging over the stage before we saw it quite easily. Still impressed at his skills but it is all trickery.
I have just been to one of his shows and was the person chosen to go on stage and call somebody. At the end he then told me to open the £10 note and read the serial number. I have since worked out how this was done, am I allowed to expose it on here?
You can if you like, but it might spoil it for people who don’t want to know.
As for the sealed envelopes, you’ll notice they were made of a funny material, a little like tracing paper, but could not be seen through as they are jet black.
This is until you have oil etc., on your hands and they become completely transparent. Try sticking oil on grease proof paper.
As for the show I was a massive fan of the last tour, but I found this one to be more a collection of cheap and often obvious magic tricks. (liverpool 14th May)
That was my thinking too - basically a modern update on older but similar methods. Either that or a one-ahead opening system (did he open any of the envelopes to “confirm his readings”?). I also imagine with the money his team has they could come up with inks that go clear in contact with certain substances. Once something is written down there are tons of options for getting a look at it.
Anyone notice how the effects on his live shows are all easily explained by standard magic methods, quite unlike his TV effects. Makes me think that his TV effects are not what they seem at all. I think they hide a lot of very important information creating an impossibility for us for what was only quite a good but standard mental effect for the person actually involved.
Hey Paul you going to share the explaination to the 10 pound not trick?
Yes Paul,
Even if you are wrong we would love to hear your theory.
You aren’t revealing any secrets unless you actually work for the show. Otherwise its just a theory. No Harm sharing it here.
in reply to nozza - he didn’t open the envelopes to confrim, so its wasn’t a 1-ahead read.
With regards to the notes - its not going to be suggestion as there wasn’t really any and it would be too risky in this circumstance.
I’d personally guess something along the lines of a reproduction £10 note with no serial numbers and a 6-digit stamp in your pocket - once you have the selected 6 digits, select the right numbers on the stamp and stamp the note (this can all be done by touch, with you hand in your pocket) - remember that the girl (in the liverpool show) wasn’t given the £10 until after all the numbers had been written down and that Mr. Brown repeatedly put his hand in his pocket to take/replace the pen that he was writing on the paper pad with.
Just an idea though - haven’t really given it much thought
That would certainly work rather well. With a decent magic technician you could get a very slick and well designed device to do that.
Essentially, if what is said/chosen/thought/drawn etc by the audience member is truely free then the only options are to either alter the prediction to match, after obtaining the information; or to have a number of outcomes, one of which matches (which is another form of altering the prediction really). Clearly with a longish sequence of numbers, you’d need way too many outcomes which only leaves the altering of the prediction at the last minute. You can normally tell if this is likely by the fact that the prediction is hidden until the last minute. What would be amazing but impossible would be for him to give the note (prediction) to someone, not in an envelope and let them read the number and THEN get the other person to say that number. If he could really “influence” people as claimed then that is what he would do. But of course he can’t since he’s only human.
i was at the liverpool show on monday night and was amazed by the end where he predicted things that would happen in the show, especially the word ’shark’ from the 20 questions game as this was the word chosen by the man who was sent back to his seat ‘as it wouldn’t work with him’. he was sat near me and when derren said he had got ’shark’ wrong, he looked surprised then got out his piece of paper from near the start of the show which said, ’shark’ on it!
thinking about the total of the number revealed at the end of the show being the date of the show (14507) i noticed at the end of my row someone was given the paper to write the numbers down but when asked for the total at the end of the show it came from the other side of the theatre….? not sure if this is significant or not…
also, regarding the £10 note trick, it would be interesting if anyone could remember the 6 digit number given by the person on the phone at any other shows. at liverpool on monday i think it started with 301…? is this the same as other places or not? looking forward to your theory on this paul.
hey i went to the show last night and it was amazing!!! Best show iv been to in my life i reckon! (lee evans comes close!). O YEA AND IF U HAVNT BEEN TO THE SHOW YET STOP READING NOW!!!! I MEAN IT! LOOK AWAY!! =P i was just wondering if any1 knew how he did the floating table?! im pretty sure its not because of subconsious movements, i know it must be a trick using some sort of magnets or something! anybody got any ideas!?
For the floating table its almost certainly magnetic but made to look like wood (he even said it was a ’specially made’ table, hehe)
A decently sized electromagnet under the stage would certainly be able to lift a table. Try this: put a powerful magnet flat on a table/floor and then put another magnet of the same polarisation above it and it will be pushed away.. it doesn’t hover. However if you wanted to keep the magnet in the air then supporting it above will stop it flying off e.g. cupping your hand around it, or even better a bit of cling film to stop it spinning over.
Now imagine a tall narrow magnetic table, that weighs very little (e.g. ply/bolster), but with a weight distribution (magnet) being at the bottom being pushed upwards by a strong magnet under the stage and being prevented from flying off by a cloth pinning it down from above.
one of these days am gonna get round to making a magic/mentalism education website - the main thing that i take issue with in the world of magic is there’s a lot of whining about magic exposure, but you can buy books/props/gimmicks from any magic store or off the internet.
It means that if you want to learn the business then you need a fair stack of cash to buy the techniques and if you don’t have that you’re pretty stuffed. Dear god, I actually bought a raven gimmick :’(
I saw Mr Brown in Sunderland and it was an awsome show, I got a review of my own on my blog. I loved the victorian style of the second half and found it highly entertaining, money well spent!
My Review
http://www.andy-coates.com/blog/2007/05/07/derren-brown-an-evening-of-wonders/
Andy
thanx MonkeyFiend! now i just need to install some magnets in my house and amaze my friends hehe.
DO NOT READ IF YOU DON’T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE £10 NOTE TRICK!
I went up on stage to phone my brother. The three numbers Derren predicted were ‘734′. The first three number my brother said were ‘369′ and the second numbers were ‘219′.
After he got these wrong Derren padded out the time by talking to him and trying to get himn to guess another 3 numbers - still wrong (these were not written on the board). He then went back to the paper board (remeber how close it was to the curtain). I believe at this point he was handed a £10 note which had just had my borther’s numbers printed on it by an ink jet printer. He then gave me the £10 note and thanked me, just as I was about to walk off stage he called me back to open the note which had the 6 numbers exactly and in the correct order. He then let me keep the £10 note.
I was amazed for a couple of days until I realised how it was done. I was fixed on the fact that the £10 was real which meant I must have somehow got my brother to say the 6 numbers….Wrong!
On closer inspection of another £10 note there are actually 2 serial numbers, one horizontal and one that runs vertically (go and check now!). On the note was written ‘I will make him say these numbers’ all in capitals. Coincidently the first ‘I’ covered up the horizontal 6 digit serial number. Also on closer inspection the original vertical serial number has been been removed as the paper is slightly thinner and some of the image has been removed (probably chemically). The numbers that have been re-printed are slightly larger than the true £10 and have also bleed a little (due to being printed on an inkjet printer). I did see a guy in the wings of the stage but I thought he was just there for the power point show etc…..but maybe not!
Regarding Matt’s coment - It’s funny that at the end of the show one of the words was ‘Octopus’ which was also the girl who sat back down in the audience from the 20 questions part. Coincidence or planned. It would be easy to see what she wrote by a high camera in the wings and it would seem more spectacular guessing this on the strip of paper than someone who was up on stage. The plot thickens.
I did try to put this on yesterday, twice but it never worked!
DO NOT READ IF YOU DON’T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE £10 NOTE TRICK!
I went up on stage to phone my brother at the Nottingham show 11th May. The three numbers Derren predicted were ‘734′. The first three number my brother said were ‘369′ and the second numbers were ‘219′.
After he got these wrong Derren padded out the time by talking to him and trying to get himn to guess another 3 numbers - still wrong (these were not written on the board). He then went back to the paper board (remeber how close it was to the curtain). I believe at this point he was handed a £10 note which had just had my borther’s numbers printed on it by an ink jet printer. He then gave me the £10 note and thanked me, just as I was about to walk off stage he called me back to open the note which had the 6 numbers exactly and in the correct order. He then let me keep the £10 note.
I was amazed for a couple of days until I realised how it was done. I was fixed on the fact that the £10 was real which meant I must have somehow got my brother to say the 6 numbers….Wrong!
On closer inspection of another £10 note there are actually 2 serial numbers, one horizontal and one that runs vertically (go and check now!). On the note was written ‘I will make him say these numbers’ all in capitals. Coincidently the first ‘I’ covered up the horizontal 6 digit serial number. Also on closer inspection the original vertical serial number has been been removed as the paper is slightly thinner and some of the image has been removed (probably chemically). The numbers that have been re-printed are slightly larger than the true £10 and have also bleed a little (due to being printed on an inkjet printer). I did see a guy in the wings of the stage but I thought he was just there for the power point show etc…..but maybe not!
Regarding Matt’s coment - It’s funny that at the end of the show one of the words was ‘Octopus’ which was also the girl who sat back down in the audience from the 20 questions part. Coincidence or planned. It would be easy to see what she wrote by a high camera in the wings and it would seem more spectacular guessing this on the strip of paper than someone who was up on stage. The plot thickens.
yup, that would certainly work with the £10 note - inkjet printer! bit more technologically advanced than my stamp suggestion!
but I suppose it boils down to the same basic premise.
Exactly, prediction of a genuinely free choice means changing the prediction after the choice is known.
Technology makes a lot of this easy. There are clipboards available which transmit the image of what is written by radio to a small screen. I’ve seen them and I’ve seen one on DB’s show.
Saw DVB at Southend last friday.
Firstly - superb - seen all three tours now and it is the most entertaining night & would recommend it to anyone regardles of what is trickery & what is pure genius!
*spoilers lay ahead*
1) £10 trick - I like the theories so far…and guess that printing back stage is the most plausable answer. However on the night I saw…he predicted 734 before the call, then the person on the phone gave the number 911 (written on the board) then he was asked to pick it again….he chose 374 (written on the board)
He was then asked to re-arrange those numbers he said 734. The note had 911374 as the last numbers. Regardless of the notes being printed backstage, he still maganed to get the called participant to choose the right 3 numbers and then get the correct order.
2) Second half trick - I guessed that the final ‘medium like’ questions were not being done through the power of psychic ability, especially as he told us all that! I presume that a member of the crew came onto the stage during the interval and added a black envelope into the bowl, but also removed 20 or so to take backstage…I don’t think this classes as a stooge, just misdirection! Derren (from reading his book) is able to remember information quickly especially when it is tranfered into coded information ie initials and row number. He probably interacts this information with the simple basis of seerating the information to Upstairs / downstairs (something he was adament the audience declared rather than saying here or hello) On the night I watched he gave starsigns replys to questions etc all info written on the cards. He even told one guy he had a 13 year old sister (presumably he had both cards back stage and linked them (blind luck for that evening) Notice that he does not nessersarily have the actually persons black card in his hand!!
A good aside was the card from CH - a young boy who probably wrote something silly like why r u a w**k**.
No one owned up to this and could have been a planted card for comic effect!!
All this is well and good, but he then proceeded to forget the cards and ask people to mentally project questions….these people did not give in cards (apparently) and he still new stuff about them. All this time he is also guessing stuff in peoples pockets and also getting people to add numbers……
I think that you can work out some bits of this trick….but there is too much going on to work it all out and still it relys on the mans ability to recall information which is an amazing skill all by itself.
3) Finalle - Yes it could be slight of hand, kinda spoils the fun though if you think that! The word for my evening was ‘box’ and the audience member was also sent back earlier!
I love trying to work out how thing are done, and 80% of the time this bloke baffles me….I often resort to the High tech gadget theories, but really there is a simpler explaination, the man is just bloody good!
HI. I went to see him yesterday in Portsmouth. The word apple was also the word that the guy who was sent back to his seat had written. I think this is proof enough that he switched the rolls of paper somehow (no idea how!!!). The adding numbers trick is baffling. It seems so clean. However, I think the pad was only sent back 8 or so rows and then totalled, and yet the total was 20507 (yesterday’s date). Even if all the numbers were 999, it would still only total 7992. I was sure it was an audience member who called out the total though. If it was, it HAD to be a stooge surely?!? My head was really hurting after last night. Thanks for those suggestions for how he did the tenner trick and the oracle. I knew he had to have seen those cards. The oil on fingers theory seems plausible but he would have to have had a very quick method for working out people’s star signs and their day of birth. If he had pre-seen the cards in the interval, however, (which also explains why he said ‘please try and put them in early in the interval, to give him time to learn them) he could’ve had a list of every date of birth and their corresponding star signs/days of birth. Notice how he didn’t tell the audience that you write your name and DOB on the card so only the people who wrote on them would know that he had access to the info. To the others, it really seems like he read the info out of nowhere. He’s a very clever man. And I’m not a little disappointed that the effects are no more than very clever trickery. Well done Derren
Saw the Southend show on Friday 18th May. The number for the £10 trick was 977 734. Derren said the guy on the phone would say 734 but he said 374.
He also turned someone away from the stage and then revealed that he had got the word right when he unravelled the scroll.
Hasnt he done the rotating table trick on tv before?
and does the oracle act actually exist? i didnt beleive that it usually takes 15 years and he did it in 2?
Do you think that because of the more magical trickery that is used in this show rather than the physical stuff he did in ’something wicked this way comes tour’ its the reason he hasnt done london dates at the same theatre? he really is ducking all over the country? stops people attending the show night after night
Paul;
I am very interested in talking to you about the £10 note trick - is there any way you can contact me or I can contact you? best wishes, D.
Paul incidentally my details are as follows
duncville -at- gmail.com
Duncville, is there any way you could share what you want to discuss with everyone else? I think we’d all be interested!!
the add a numbers effect is a classic.
if you watched his “assistant ” going arouind he asked certain peole to add numbers one on top of the other and then went to another part of the audience reversing the little book which he opened and asked another real audience member to add 3 sets of numbers written in different writing already whic always adds up to the date derren is performing.
the assistants were quite entertaining and pretty good at their job
I also saw the Portsmouth show. Derren brought on a ’special’ table to catch the box when it came down at the end. Given the fact that we had already seen a floating table of his, I wouldn’t be surprised if this table contained the final bit of paper somehow. The cards that he made the audience chose were forced upon them, (he had already shown in another trick how easy it is to force a card). He didn’t hypnotise the woman to guess the cards but just said things like; pick a number between 1 - 9, not 3 (7 was chosen) and oh don’t forget the picture cards (she chose a jack after that) coaxing her in the right direction. The 20 questions people wrote in massive letters the object they were thinking of, so the person he didn’t use’s object could easily have been included on the paper. And the final woman that was ‘most psychic’ had had probably already been chosen long before, as it was Derren who chose who called out the random numbers, she was probably chosen because she was quite distinct, and by being chosen before allowed her description to be written on the paper. I would guess everyone chosen for the final box trick was quite distinct. Those are my theories anyway.
But how he got that some guy wanted to be a referee, or someone’s daughter was going through a legal case, or how someone had won the lottery, I have no idea.
I didn’t think the ending was as strong as the last show, but I had a great evening.
Trigger: I was also at the Portsmouth show the other night, my friend was one of the ones whose object he guessed (the pedometer), and who he said had bought it with a lottery win. On the first point I assume there must have been some communication between himself and his assistants afterall it is they who came round to see what objects people had. But as to the fact she bought it with a lottery win I am baffled, I was sitting next to her and don’t recall her mentioning it at any point to the assistant and she denies having done so.
A very good show though, almost as much fun trying to work it out as watch it.
Such is the nature of people’s memory. Obviously she did mention it or write it down at some point or else no-one could possibly know. Unless you belief in stuff like “mindreading” or DB’s take on it - that bodylanguage can be read to the detail of “i bought it with lottery money”! I think not.
Yes that old adding the numbers effect is SO old it’s untrue. Straight out of Corrinda. It’s great to think it still works. The way people have recounted it to me didn’t mention that they had an assistant and someone else added up the total! Again such is the nature of people’s memory.
Trigger: I doubt very much that he used any psychological forcing. It’s not reliable enough for a stage show. He certainly didn’t use any in his last stage show despite the impression he gave.
I like his lie about the Oracle act taking 15 years but on taking 2 for him. I think you’ll find it takes about 15 minutes to learn but a few weeks to rehearse to the point of perfection. I seem to remember him telling similar lies about that walking on broken glass trick, which takes about 1 second to learn - you just walk over smallish bits of glass and they don’t cut like you might expect.
I think it’s great that he can use all the old tricks only slightly dressed up in his “I can influence/read you using modern psychological methods” angle and still be very entertaining.
I went to see the show last night in Ipswich, and thought it was great. I think i’ve sussed out part of the scroll at the end, being revealed. If you’ve seen the show, you’ll remember DB ‘passing out’ at the end of the oracle part. When this happened the curtains closed for quite a few minutes, and the box was not on view. This would have given time to put the scroll into it, with the relevant details. Agree about the £10.00 note trick, there was definitely somebody backstage near the board he was writing on, giving plenty of opportunity to be handed something. Still a great show, but think I enjoyed the previous one more.
with regards to how he worked out the starsigns on the little black envelope trick - the cards inside did ask for birthday.
It doesn’t take much to memorise which starsign you’d be in based on a date - ask any hairdresser/nail technician
First of all Derren Brown is the best thing to appear on television “period”-he should have won the bafta. but…………
After seeing Derren Brown’s “An Evening of Wonders” three times at different venues -I wonder whether he has gone to far with the detail this time -the fill in cards have all the information he requires if they can be “read”
The people go on stage one at a time to put them into the glass bowl -that is when they can be viewed/filmed/and a psychological reading taken
The envelope from a youth with similar contents is at each show
The people who write the numbers/ read from the book/the lady chosen to open the scroll- have been in the same area of the audience for the three shows
That leaves the banner at the end -the box is not out of view the whole show- it made a slight wobble with a few seconds to go (Ipswich)
Option (a) the plastic scroll tube is added to the box in the last seconds
(c) the banner is made from electronic paper and the text is added wirelessly at the end ( electronic paper is a reality- look it up on the web)
(b) Derren wrote the scroll out minutes before the audience entered
Gordon, ur wrong mate….”The people who write the numbers/ read from the book/the lady chosen to open the scroll- have been in the same area of the audience for the three shows”
i know the person who read from the book at the show i saw, he sat next to me, and i know for a fact he hasnt been to more than one show.
i went to see this last night at Sailsbury.
We got the numbers 141 372 on the phone call.
Great theory on the box. I had forgotten that the curtains shut at the end of the Oracle act. I find this exceptionally relevant as we had the planted “kiddie” card which was right before my card was called out.
I was also the reference to the oracle act on the scroll at the end, so the kiddie card must have been telling the writer of the scroll that they should write down the next person’s “thing”. Mine was Firework Phobia. I was the second to last entry on the scroll so if the lady at the end had already been picked, there was enough time to write the scroll whilst Derren kept guessing things for him then to collapse and the scroll put in the box. There was a pair of feet behind the curtain underneath the box when the curtain closed.
Was the lady a stooge or was she chosen by peeping through the curtains as the guests trickled in, like in an episode of Jonathan Creek (the one with the blonde woman doing the Psycho act)…
Our lady had: black Jacket, white skirt, black and white top, green sandals and was three off (77).
Although you never saw what number Derren had written on the card, he just said the number was 80.
Our scroll was: China (from the green/blue box), then Toffee (from the one who got sent away from the 20 questions game), then we had 2clubs, 7 hearts and 7 clubs from the cards game, then firework phobia which was me and then the lady at the end…..i think that was it…
well, all in all I believe everyone here has worked out the crux of the main acts.
It was a good show and worth seeing, however I still don’t think it was as original or inspiring as the last tour.
Was the last tour the one with the Daily Mail trick at the end? Because I thought that show was pretty lame, except that effect. I could almost immediately work out how every effect could be done. I worked out the last effect but that took some thinking.
Hi Taylor,
I did not mean that it was the same people - but approx- the same areas of audience, was the book read with a torch/camera (the plot thickens)
The lady at the end hardly touched the banner (Derren whisked it away before she felt the circuitry-methinks) when it ended up on the floor it seemed rather rigid.
if it is electronic it is the cutting edge of technology- I must go again to concentrate on certain areas.
Its interesting what gayle has said. I think the lady at the end is not a stooge, but chosen in advance, the night i went she had white jacket, and trousers and pink top. she was three numbers off as well. She said 97, and DB said he had written down 100, and it was only afterwards I thought we never actually saw what he had written. The information on the scroll was different, as obviously it is relevant to each individual show. I don’t think Gordon thought the ‘book person’ etc was a stooge, just that it was relevant where they were sitting. How many shows is DB doing 37? What are the chances of somebody bringing a book along with them in the first place, and at every show.
Just wondering Gayle, what did you mean by you had the ‘kiddie’ card before yours was read out - was it your initials he said?
Nozza, are you a magician or just very clever, working everything out - share some secrets with us, if you can.
I meant the planted card from the child under 16 as mentioned by Jeff - good aside was the card from CH - a young boy who probably wrote something silly like why r u a w**k**.
That planted card, was directly before my card was read out suggesting to me that the planted card signelled to the person writing the scroll to write my fact down for the reveal at the end.
I was just wondering if this theory was backed up at other shows i.e. the planted child card was read out, then the next person chosen was the one that ended up on the scroll at the end….
I am now certain that the curtain closure was when the scroll was put in the box, and i’m certian that the people at the Sailsbury show were not supposed to see the feet of the person putting the scroll in the box behind the closed curtain
I thought it was clever how quickly he changed into the gorilla suit….I knew there was something up when he was hiding behind the whiteboard….but still quite clever….did any of you guys see the gorilla come on the first time?
Re the box-
in the three venue’s I have been to the box is on view all the time and is not covered by the curtains at any time. That statement is made at the beginning of the show- I hope that is what I saw!!!
the woman at the end of the liverpool show was 3 off as well (39 instead of 36 and she was at the front, on the right)… but i’m sure she was shown the card that DB had written the number down on.
some one told me they were looking the first time the ‘gorilla was stealing the banana’ and apparently the banana just fell backwards as if pulled by a string and no one in a gorilla suit actually came on at all.
the scroll at the end of liverpool was:
Brazil (from the green/blue box), then Shark (from the one who got sent away from the 20 questions game), then we had the 3 cards from the cards game (which were different to the ones mentioned by Gayle, but can’t remember exactly what they were), then big yellow taxi which was from the oracle act and then the lady at the end (long brown hair, blue jeans, silver sandals, purple n green flowery top, 3 off).
Gordon, you’ll have to go again to double check, but I’m 99.9% positive that the curtains hid the box, as i was watching it a lot of the time. Gayle, are you sure the box was hidden when the curtains closed, or were you not watching it? Also why would their be a set of feet right under where the box was. Also I noticed that, when DB asked for people with unusual objects etc for readings, his crew went about before hand, and spoke to people concerning them, did anybody else notice that? The details could have easily been given to DB, if this is the case. Has anybody taken part with an object, and did the crew speak to you? I missed the gorilla the first time, as I think most of the audience did, apart from the people sitting near the front where he came on. - great misdirection, as we know that is the key to the show.
I saw the gorillas both times round.
There were definatley, without a shadow of a doubt, a pair of feet in green shoes behind the curtain underneath the box when the curtains closed when Derren “fainted”.
The only reason I can see is that as Derren faints the curtain closes and the box comes down. The person comes on and puts the scroll in the box, the box goes back up again and the curtains then open.
This would fit right in with the misdirection. although you are told to watch the box, if the star of the show suddenly falls over and the curtain shuts you’re thrown into choas and you watch the curtains to see what is going on - and not the box. I would love to go and see it again and double check - oh, well have to wait for the DVD.
I sincerley doubt the electronic paper theory, or even a wireless printer theory…
…plus the box wasn’t locked even though there was a “key” hanging off of it, which suggests to me it needed to be open quickly…
I am really enjoying the conversation on this blog. I love a good mystery.
well done Gayle spotting the gorillas. can you remember at the start of the show, and the curtains are drawn, the box was not on show. Not until they started the bit with the film, and the curtains were drawn, did you see the box. I agree with you, when he faints, I think thats when the scroll goes into the box, it makes sense. I think if they did do a DVD they would edit it, so not to make that obvious, by zooming in, or concentrating on the audience reaction. If anybody is reading this, and hasn’t yet seen the show, but is going……. watch the box, when he faints! Its the book part thats puzzling me, Taylor did you say you knew the person who read from the book at a show, was he a friend of yours?
To Nozza:
yep - I preferred the last show (the one with the daily mail) a lot more - the trickery was a lot more involved and convoluted. The recent tour seemed to be more a collection of already well known tricks and psychological gimmicks - stuff liek pendulum swinging/table moving; can be done by anyone and struck me more as a filler.
As for the tricks, electronic paper is a no-go - I’ve seen prototypes and it would be quite distinguishable.
The most likely thing regarding the scroll was that the box was unlocked and empty, the scroll written in the side of the stage and inserted into the box when it was dropped during derren’s ‘dizzy spell’
Annoyingly I missed the banana vanishing >:(
Thanks for creating this board! I have sooo enjoyed reading it!
I have been to see Derren on all 3 tours and loved them all.
Some of the effects I think I did work out after days of thinking about it! I worked out that the person picked out for the box trick is always distinctive looking and we have only Derrens word that she/he are the closest to his number. Obviously, they are chosen beforehand and added to the scroll. I’m sure the box didn’t go behind the curtains but when it is brought down the scroll is probably hidden in the table. I believe some of the cards do get back stage for him to read during the interval but the trick that really foxed me was the £10 note which now makes sense if it was not real and could be printed once numbers said.
I think the gorilla comes on when the person from 20 questions gets sent off after not being used. I am sure this is just done as a bit of misdirection and the person has done nothing wrong but is a very important part of the show!
I think it was an amazing show and well worth every penny of the ticket price. I love trying to work it all out and have enjoyed reading others ideas on the subject.
I am still not sure how the newspaper trick was done at the end of the last tours shows. I am sure it is something incredibly obvious though. The best tricks always are!
arrgh for some reason my post about the book didn’t work :’(
For Lizzy - here goes again, regarding the book trick:
the usher gives the audience member the microphone/torch or even holds the mic in front of them. The important part is they give the audience member the torch to hold.
They point the torch down at the book, at the word they’re singling out.
Now imagine if someone with a bit of skill had put a £100-200 wireless camera inside the torch. Quite cheap and with a bit of DIY, quite easy.
A person on the wings receives the image, writes it on some paper, all derren has to do is look into the wings to see the word.
You can limit you chances on this by saying stuff like “pick an interesting/long/unusual word” (although people tend to anyway) - there’s not likely to be many directly under the light of the torch.
Also people tend to point directly at the word they have choosen - try this with someone and a torch but actually look where the centre of the torch light is focussed 9/10 its correct.
huzzah!
a small comment on the book at the liverpool show: DB guessed several different words, suggesting they would be on the page or near where she was looking, but with no success. he gave up in the end. could this have been intended to try and make people not think the camera in the torch was his method?
also, in reply to lizzy ‘can you remember at the start of the show, and the curtains are drawn, the box was not on show’ i think you might be wrong here as when we were sitting waiting for the show to start, someone in my group suggested that the box hanging from above the stage would play a significant part in the show. however, i still think an extra curtain may have come down when DB ‘fainted’. not sure though.
thanks monkeyfriend for the book info, yes that makes sense, but what about the ‘book’ person always sitting in a similar place, and actually having a book in the first place! I’m not sure about the box being visible at the beginning, I thought It wasn’t, but my husband thinks it was, still an extra curtain could have been used. We need to hear from somebody who is about to see the show, they can do the detective work for us!
I don’t think I’m derrenged yet- They take their own curtains on tour- when the audience go in the curtains are closed and the picture of Derren is on the curtains- at the top is a pelmet-the box (with spotlight on) is on a rope which hangs behind the pelmet -if you remember the text -”this box will be on view the whole show” with an arrow pointing to it
jog any memories- Excellent……
yeah - when I entered the liverpool show the hanging box was the first thing I noticed, so was def there at the beginning.
As for the book, I remember derren tried a few words - all to no success. My idea regarding a microcamera (something like: http://tinyurl.com/ccvyk) isn’t always foolproof - as I said people tend to pick interesting words in the centre of the field of light, but as with many things, people often throw a spanner in the works.
At first I thought someone bringing a book is a little odd, but then people use public transport etc., - when I used to get the train to work I’d take a book. In 1000+ people someone would likely have a book. Perhaps even a university student
Yep. The box is definitely on show as people are going in. Although, there could have been another curtain that came down when Derren fainted, can’t be sure.
A theory I heard about the lady that Derren ‘taught’ to be psychic. Derren forced the same card on all the people (7H). Then the lady named 3 cards. Derren got her to say 7H no problem: “think of a no. btw 1 and 10, not 3, think of your favourite suit”; he couldn’t, however, rely on her getting the other two exactly. When she names the three cards, of course all the people would sit down as their card (7H) was named.
I was at the show in Dorking last night and was the person picked out at the end to go on stage and read the scroll (with details of my clothes - I had a very distinctive top on). I was sat in the third row, three seats in on the right hand side (as you’re looking at the stage). It sounds like this spot was picked at other venues? Maybe it is always this seat?
Hi Sue,
The three shows I’ve seen -the lady at the end is always in that approx position-did you feel the scroll paper and was it different in any way -and what about the writing
The paper was very thin. Can’t remember much about the writing as I was so bl*&dy nervous about what may have been about to happen to me!! Pretty sure it was hand written though. I’m sure it was written during the second half of the show (everything related to stuff from the first half) and then swapped at the last minute. I had said the number 5 and Derren Brown got an envelope out of his pocket, not sealed and asked me to read out the number. It was 8 (obviously, we now know it is always 3 away) but written such a real scrawl that I reckon he had just written it in his pocket.
Saw him in Cardiff and was very impressed. Excellent night out for 20 quid. Now, down to the tricks
One theory I heard with respect to the Oracle trick was that the contents of the bowl were substituted when the audience’s attention was diverted by the table lift.
All the cards had something like ‘dickhead’ on them so he could throw one to the audience. The rest is down to a concealed earpiece so someone in the wings would be reading bits of the bowl to him.
Given the inkjet printer/10 pound note thing, this all sounds quite plausible to me.
I was also at the Salisbury show and found it very entertaining. The banana was on the extreme left hand side of the stage. When the Gorilla came on to take the banana, he emerged from behind a small curtain immediately behind the banana, while the spotlight and crowd’s attention were (focussed) on the extreme right of the stage. I don’t think the gorilla was on stage for more than a second or two, but he was definitely there.
Gayle, can you remember when you put your card in the bowl? Was it fairly early on during the interval? Only one person was allowed on stage at a time to put their card in the bowl. It would have been easy for an assistant, with their back to the audience, to put a card in the bowl, mix the cards around and take a few out at the same time, without anyone noticing.
Nobody has mentioned the ‘open the box’ trick so far. At Salisbury it contained the £5,000 and the message on the board read “Why does everyone say £500?”. What did the box contain elsewhere? My guess is that the box can be opened in two ways, so that it would always appear to have the “wrong” amount.
Yup, the board said “Why does everyone say 5000?” but the last 0 looked a bit different like it had been written at a different time.