Of course, in life, we do commit nontrivial resources to a course of action in the absence of this kind of information. Most business deals would never happen if investors required randomized, controlled, double-blind research into all possible outcomes before opening their wallets.

Coaching in the athletic context is not double-blinded, and the athlete him/herself has to follow what the coach says, or may decide the coach lacks credibility and go elsewhere.

(As for quantum physics, I share at least some of your skepticism, since Richard Feynman said nobody “understands” it, and it was in his area of expertise. Explaining anything in terms of concepts that are themselves not well-understood seems less than productive to me. Some of those quantum-physics explanations may be valid, but I find that they positively invite scrutiny.)

At the same time, a lack of compelling evidence for something does not prove that that something is not the case, the lack might also be due to an absence of extensive, properly-designed experimentation. Which might happen because those in a position to allocate resources to such experimentation are for one reason or another disinclined to do so. Some such reasons would be valid, others not.

The spirit of Science requires the objective, unbiased evaluation of all assertions, and in the Platonic realm, that is how it is conducted (or so I imagine). In the world I actually experience, science is conducted by flawed humans whose organizational, material, and political interests also play a role in what experiments actually wind up getting run.

The scientific method may yield truth (when properly practiced), but undeniably requires significant resources that a lot of us don’t have. And when something is as easy to verify first-hand as the usefulness of NLP techniques (properly practiced), then as a practical matter, I believe one may reasonably choose not to wait for the fine-grinding, but slow, gears of Science to deliver their results.

In fact, I believe positive results were in fact obtained in the case at the top of the thread, at least initially. Then the practitioner misread the situation, set off alarm bells, and created some counter-productive skepticism, and the client got off the bus. Bummer.

Which is problematic, because there are two problems here. Firstly, there’s no prior plausibility. Fixing psychological problems with pre-determined words sounds exactly like the placebo effect (or if that’s not an option, a magic spell). Quantum physics explanations have been used by every cure-of-the-gaps alternative-medicine practitioner of the last 50 years, and have no credibility amongst quantum physicists. So, because the plausibility for extra-placebo effects is so out of kilter with known psychology, you have to provide compelling evidence.

Which is the second problem, because there are no controls. It’s all very well claiming to have cured people’s headaches, but without a control group you’ve no way of knowing if that’s really true. There are just too many variables. You may be personally convinced, but to convince anyone else you need to provide something compelling. Anecdotes are only the start: they’re enough for a hypothesis, but that’s it.

I have trouble believing that the whole world of medicine is ignoring something to effective. I think their skepticism may be more to do with a lack of compelling evidence.

When you say, “anything but anecdote,” if you mean are there academic studies, I have no idea. I’ve seen it work firsthand, by which I mean a complaint disappeared, and while infinite time has not elapsed, the complaint has not recurred. In at least one case, a symptom which might be a modified form of the original complaint did show up, and further work was done, the details and results of which I don’t know about. As a specific example, I was at a bar with a number of people, one of whom began to have a headache, and was going to leave. I guided him to just before the headache, then before I could do much more, he started laughing and said the headache was gone. I don’t think he was lying either before or after. I haven’t been able to follow up on what happened the rest of the night though. Even alleviating a headache for half an hour would be pretty significant if it were *my* headache.

When you say, “spell,” I’m not sure what you mean. To me, “spell” would mean an invocation of invisible “supernatural” entities, or elemental forces, separate from the human participants in whatever the process is. TLT is not at all like that, it’s more like a way of getting better co-operation within your own mind. The conscious, rational mind is great at some things, but isn’t always very good at recognizing when it would be better to sit down and stay out of the way of other parts of the mind.

As for revolutionizing psychology, the history of NLP includes some regrettable turf-wars with academic psychologists. Until those are settled, NLP can deliver results to those who seek out the right practitioners, but seems unlikely to be blessed by the guild. So the revolution will have to wait.

Can you back up ‘it does work for some’ with anything but anecdote? If not, that’s at best a hypothesis. If the timeline therapy spell worked better than words-that-aren’t-spells, it’d revolutionise psychology. As far as I can tell, that hasn’t happened…

There is also no one meaning of the term, “NLP.” It’s not trademarked, it’s a generic term, so any bozo can claim to practice it. Some of them may have certifications from reputable certifiers, others may be certified by other bozos, or not at all.

As for the life-coach experience described here, it sounds as if the life-coach didn’t absorb from your previous interactions that metaphysics and certain interpretations of quantum physics were not part of your model of reality. Still, if someone describes having seen a “big silver bird” up in the sky the other day, you may decide that their understanding of technology is questionable, but you probably won’t rule out that they saw an actual, not a hallucinated, airplane. Time Line Therapy either works or doesn’t, irrespective of quantum physics. It’s an experiential thing. It sounds as if in this case, it didn’t work for you, but it does work for some (if not all) people, when done correctly.

As a consumer of medical and other therapeutic and educational services, theory is interesting to me, but results trump theory.

Lena, This is exactly my opinion and what my intention was in becoming a coach. However now that I am in the field I can’t find coaches with the same mindset. I feel that there is a place where CBT with a good psychologist ends and a coach can come in. I just can’t find it without running into all the jargon and repackaged science you noted. Would love to connect with you about the peer-reviewed journal research you found.

The problem with psychological therapies is that many of the outcomes they seek to achieve are soft and difficult to measure. Nevertheless, I would have to agree that the best measure of a therapy’s veracity are these types of outcome measures.

Ask first, “does it work” and ask second “how does it work”.

“NLP” is fundamentally junk. It conflates already established knowledge from rigorous fields and magical thinking. To grab terms such as “neuro-”, and steal principles from cognitive neuroscience and cognitive/behavioral psychology, strip them of their scientific rigor and repackage them as another phenomenon is simply dishonest. Maybe the habit is fit for the times…economics over education. The cause of helping people should come not just with good intention, but solid reason. Let’s not practice or administer circular reasoning and sleight of hand as a fix.

(further, let’s not steal and sell behavioral-cognitive therapy under the name NLP)

I think the economic crisis and flailing attempt to conduct “anti-terror” wars are perfect examples of prolonging the problem by falling in love with an inappropriate model. Providing services more consistent with reality not only gives credibility to the job, but ensures clients get appropriate and responsible answers. We’re definitely up for this kind of challenge.

Lena

Sorry – maybe you misunderstood my intent, in that I am not a salesman – nothing to sell/gain personally here – I was simply adding some knowledge to this thread by someone with actual experience in both sides of this argument/discussion.

If your argument were to hold up …. that whilst cars etc are proven to get you form a-b and NLP isn’t proven to work, then you MUST also add that Psychology doesn’t work etc etc – because there are many people who have an experience of that being true for them. Are you suggesting that to be the case?

As I said, the mind is a very complex thing and not everyone will gain a result with whatever type of therapy they go to, because it depends on so many differing variables – from their state of mind (secondary gain), to input from well-meaning friends & family, to the skill of the therapist (in which-ever discipline, whether a main-stream ‘accepted’ psycho-therapy, or otherwise.)

Simple fact of the matter is that Psychology etc works for some/many and so does NLP/Hypnotherapy, or whatever ……. and yes … so might sex make you feel good for a while – as per your example.

Perhaps re-read my actual comment though – as below for clarity for you:-

==> “You’ve had ONE bad experience with something you don’t fully understand.”

I do not say that it did not work BECAUSE they didn’t understand it – rather that (a) It didn’t work for them and (b) they didn’t fully understand it … 2 exclusive events – not related.

I also didn’t claim NLP to be magic – as you put it. I just happen to know more about it than many, in knowing that it can work very well AND that there are certain criteria that need to be present in order for ANY type of mental therapy to work on any patient/client.

There is no such thing as a magic ‘cure’ for mental problems, as evidenced by the fact that so many people are walking around with problems. Does that mean that none of the methods out there can be evidenced to work for many people, in various ways? Of course not.

I am somewhat confused by your comment though – as there is a contradiction, I feel…

you wrote:-
“Point is, when you feel good there’s a lot more you can do with your life. So to feel good, some people practice NLP; others have sex.”

I agree with the first part about feeling good and being able to do more with your life – fine….

……Yet you clearly have an issue with NLP working (or not) so I do not understand how you can make the comment “So to feel good, some people practice NLP;” which you APPEAR to believe could not happen, since you are saying it doesn’t work???

I am interested to know how you came to have your negative experience/view on the subject?!!?

Cheers for now

Nig